Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

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RMS
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Location: Near Wakefield, in God's own Country!

Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby RMS » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 pm

Oh dear, from some years ago when we could have 10 vehicles and 20 passes free at the Live Promotion shows, the organisers are now charging for display vehicles and passes :thud:

I've just filled in the application forms for Kelmarsh and the Spring Adventure at Driffield, and received the following:

"Thank you for your club stand application to Land Rover Spring Adventure 2019 for Land Rover Classic Campers. I will be in touch by Friday 29th March to let you know the status of your application.

If your application is successful you can book up to 10 vehicles at £10 each to include a weekend ticket for the driver only. Each vehicle entered is entitled to one other discounted weekend ticket at £10 for their passenger. (Maximum 20 discounted weekend tickets available per club)

In the meantime please be sure to advertise the show through all media channels to help promote this fantastic event."


Ok, it's not a lot, but we are travelling to these shows to display vehicles so they can charge the public to come in to view them!

There may also be an additional cost involved: for the last couple of years we have been asked to provide public liability insurance, not for the vehicles themselves (which will be covered by your existing vehicle insurance), but in case any member of the public is injured by display material, tent pegs, guy lines, fire buckets, firepits, wood, boundary posts/ropes, bunting etc.
We haven't done this, though most of the show organisers have been asking for it, but as the 'club official' (I sign the papers!), I feel we should be covering this in the future.
I estimate this would be around £45-£65 per show.

Clubs which charge fees usually cover this insurance, but as a free forum we don't have any funds, so this cost would have to be shared amongst the attendees.



Opinions, please: are folk willing to pay up to £20 or or so to display their vehicles, plus £10 for passengers?
1967 109" Carawagon 200TDi on the road and regularly used.
1958 109" Carawagon 2.25P (project)
1972 109" Carawagon 200 or 300TDi (project)
1972 109" SW Carawagon 2.5NA - to tidy!
1974 Dormobile 2.25D (project)
(patNrob on S2C)

dudley
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: stamford

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby dudley » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:06 am

A very short sighted attitude to take by the
so called professionals.The public will not pay
the high entrance prices if the displays are
not there for them to see.

Shows will be getting smaller.Then the organizers
will realize the serious mistake they have made
trying to grab a few extra pounds.

Regards

Phillip :tiphat:
1971 2a 109 diesel station wagon

1971 2a 109 petrol carawagon

And others

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Peaceand
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Location: Near Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby Peaceand » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:35 am

The attraction of these events for me was a free weekend camping with friends, and the show that went on around us was just a bonus. If it's not a free weekend camping anymore, then I'd probably opt for spending that £20 on a nicer camp site not surrounded by generators and floodlights all night.

As Phillip says, if they drive away the small clubs/groups (like us), there will be fewer interesting stands, and probably more commercial stands filling the gaps. That makes it even less appealing to me, it'll turn into rows and rows of shiny Range Rovers for sale like a main dealer's forecourt.

There are plenty of shows that aren't Live Promotions, local shows as well as the bigger ones like Newark. Which also have the advantage of a more varied vehicle collection to look at.

I see Frank has posted a note on the S2C forum, the response there may be interesting too.
http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/foru ... n.html#new

Best regards,
Patrick
:holly_arrive:
  • Holly - 1972 Searle Carawagon Continental Ultimate (200 TDi)
  • Basil - 1969 Searle SWB (Prima TD)

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RMS
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:02 am
Location: Near Wakefield, in God's own Country!

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby RMS » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:45 pm

I agree with all of that, Phillip & Patrick.

I'll wait until the entry deadline for opinions from others who normally attend the shows before deciding whether to book a stand.

I emailed Frank last night to see if he was aware - the S2C has been a mainstay of the Live Promotion shows for a long time, and I did think they might have let him know in advance, but he replied that it was the first he'd heard of it.
He spoke with the organisers this morning, who confirmed everyone now has to pay to display.
Obviously it's easier for the S2C as the club has insurance to cover shows, so for their display vehicles it's just the £10 plus passengers, so they might get enough folk willing to pay up :shrug:

Personally, I'm with Patrick - I'd rather spend £20 on a camp somewhere with my mates than spend it on a showground where Series vehicles have become rarities over the last couple of years

Let's see what time brings :tiphat:

Cheers,
Robin.
1967 109" Carawagon 200TDi on the road and regularly used.
1958 109" Carawagon 2.25P (project)
1972 109" Carawagon 200 or 300TDi (project)
1972 109" SW Carawagon 2.5NA - to tidy!
1974 Dormobile 2.25D (project)
(patNrob on S2C)

RobW
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:16 pm

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby RobW » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:20 pm

There's a difference between paying a small fee to help a small show that's not trying to make a profit (Doncaster for example) or is for charity and funding commercial profits. If the price covered food (for example) as per some of the military vehicle events fair enough too. Whilst it may be to discourage those turning up & abandoning cars on a stand (ie avoid paying to enter) it'll also put off the clubs. There are a few of those starting to charge too much too, and that's already led to clubs not going. Are field rents that high, or is it just trying to maximise the profit short term?

wagoner
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:06 pm

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby wagoner » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:44 pm

Hi everyone ,I think we put an awful lot of effort in to making our display interesting for the public, I am very proud of my truck and love showing it off, but it still means turning up on the Friday before staying with it to answer questions and being told not to start packing up before 4pm even though most of the traders have long since gone, I think we should make a point and tell them to sod off ,we can have more fun together camping wild , I certainly won't pay to exhibit, cheers trevJ

woollen797
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:21 pm

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby woollen797 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:31 pm

It's easy for me Spring Adventure clashes with the Ackworth Scammell Gathering, although the show at Ackworth is their smaller event I'd rather go there where exhibitors are appreciated and there are more than blinged up off roaders. Oh and camping is free for exhibitors.

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DrivingDutchman
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Location: Raunds, Northants

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby DrivingDutchman » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:01 pm

I'm in two minds about this.

On the one hand I kinda see where they are coming from not giving free tickets to clubs anymore. I can totally imagine the showgrounds (venues) charging ever more money each year to organisers like Live Promotions to hold these shows on their grounds. I think it is each year more expensive for the traders also. It could come to the point that it all collapses due to too high costs. That would be a shame.

On the other hand, These shows are an opportunity for us to have a nice camping weekend away with good company and admire the other vehicles on display. I'm not keen on paying for these shows just to show off the vehicles. The trader prices are not that brilliant these days anymore, almost the same as on internet. It is just the auto jumble that I would miss if one decides not to go anymore. But you could always just go for the day and if you needed any particular parts. I'm not keen on paying for showing Dora.

Reading the thread on the S2C forum is certainly interesting to say the least. Good points are made both ways.
But I must add that the S2C club is a multitude bigger than the LRCC and to become a full member of the S2C you have to pay contribution.

After all this I'm still in two minds...

I would say, if there are enough committing to go, I'll join the gang.

Can I just ask Robin, Is this insurance mandatory now? I mean do you need to show a certificate before you can receive the tickets?
One could just stop using the bunting and photo boards etc around the display area and instead attach them to the individual vehicles. And instead of using steel pegs to tie the rope to, use soft cones with paper like line to cordon the display off. To make sure nobody can even get injured by them. And limit the bbq's to just one club one in the evening and packing it way under the landy during the day? These are just (silly) ideas floating around all of a sudden in my head.

I think though in all seriousness, that if Robin is being made reliable if something were to happen with these club materials and injure a member of the public or anybody really, we should not let Robin take the fall for that and share the costs for this insurance with however many we are displaying. In the end of the day, it is still cheaper then paying the full admission price for a normal ticket.
After all these shows gets us into contact with a lot of potential new members for the forum. Every year I have met people that have just bought a Landy camper or have one in the shed and starting to rebuild it that never heard of our club before. So I think it is still worth while, even if we have to pay for it now.

That is my 2 pennies on the matter...
1969 109 sw dormobile Dora
1996 overland defender sw 110 Nellie
1962 109 sw safari diesel Hannie (sold)
1973 88 series 3 soft top in various bits on the drive...

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RMS
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Location: Near Wakefield, in God's own Country!

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby RMS » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:27 am

Thanks for everyone's thoughts so far.

I think it was the shock of the charge, with no preamble, no explanation etc., just the reply email when I applied for the stands which said each pass would be £10.

As some have said, on here and on S2C, it's not really a lot for a 'camping' weekend away, to see other vehicles and meet up with like-minded folk, and is a lot cheaper than paying as members of the public, but combined with the compulsory insurance, comes as a bit of a shock for something which has been free in the past.

Traders pay thousands of pounds per metre at these shows, public pay from £15 a day (single) to £75 for camping (family), and thousands turn up, sponsors must pay thousands I assume, so to ask £10 a vehicle from clubs to make the show interesting for the public just seems petty :shrug:

Yes, the insurance is compulsory, along with a risk assessment I have had to complete for each show over the last few years. The organisers ask for the insurance certificate details, but up to now I've been putting "Individual vehicle insurance public liability" and it hasn't been queried.
However, if something did happen, as I say, as the person signing the forms then I would be held responsible :aaagh:
Even minimising risks, there could still be a 'stand related' incident, whether it's a photo board blown off a vehicle or an accident with a firepit/bbq even after the public have gone home, it could still be classed as a 'stand' issue and not a vehicle issue.

Other shows can cost - the Mark Woodward shows cost £4 per vehicle for admin and some local car shows also charge a small entry fee, but they are not being 'sponsored' or have trade stands paying thousands of pounds, and most steam/traction shows are free, as far as I know.

Of course, I suppose those of us who are members of the S2C and have a S2 or S2A vehicle, could apply to that club for vehicle passes and display on their stand, like we started out doing years ago, to get around the insurance issue (the S2C has show insurance) :shrug: but it wouldn't give LRCC the same 'presence' to draw new members in.
That's open for discussion as well, if anyone has any thoughts?

Personally, the 'show' itself doesn't excite me, and hasn't for some time. It doesn't change much through the years, other than having less Series content and more and more bling, and I think I've only watched one arena display in the last 5 years. Even the autojumble and second hand trader stands have little Series stuff now.
So if the concensus is that folk don't want to pay, then I wouldn't really miss them and would rather meet up with folk to camp.

Cheers,
Robin.
1967 109" Carawagon 200TDi on the road and regularly used.
1958 109" Carawagon 2.25P (project)
1972 109" Carawagon 200 or 300TDi (project)
1972 109" SW Carawagon 2.5NA - to tidy!
1974 Dormobile 2.25D (project)
(patNrob on S2C)

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RMS
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:02 am
Location: Near Wakefield, in God's own Country!

Re: Live Promotion now charging for club displays :(

Postby RMS » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am

Hi guys,

Well, the only replies I've had so far are mainly negative - ie. from those who would not attend if being charged.

However, I have had two or three who say they might attend, assuming the overall cost is reasonable.

I have a quote for insurance at £54 per event (or £157 for annual, up to 10 events).

So, if only 4 want to go to an event, the cost per vehicle would be £13.50 plus the entry fee of £10, plus £10 per passenger.

If 10 go, the cost for insurance would obviously be much lower, but from the replies I'm getting, I don't think we'd get more than 4-5 per event.

If the consensus is that we go ahead, I would have to ask those wanting to attend to pay me when booking, for the entry fee and insurance, by paypal, bank transfer etc., and assume a minimum of 4 vehicles will attend.
If more attend, you will get the difference refunded.
If we get less than 4 I'm not sure Live Promotions would allow us a stand - in previous years the minimum has been 5 vehicles, but there's nothing in the application this year (though that doesn't mean they don't still have a minimum).

Your thoughts, please :shrug:

Robin.
1967 109" Carawagon 200TDi on the road and regularly used.
1958 109" Carawagon 2.25P (project)
1972 109" Carawagon 200 or 300TDi (project)
1972 109" SW Carawagon 2.5NA - to tidy!
1974 Dormobile 2.25D (project)
(patNrob on S2C)


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